{"id":141992,"date":"2016-12-29T09:41:23","date_gmt":"2016-12-29T08:41:23","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.recom.link\/?p=141992"},"modified":"2020-04-17T11:57:25","modified_gmt":"2020-04-17T10:57:25","slug":"natasa-kandic-todays-politicians-look-like-no-idea-happened-parts","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.recom.link\/en\/natasa-kandic-todays-politicians-look-like-no-idea-happened-parts\/","title":{"rendered":"Nata\u0161a Kandi\u0107: \u201eToday\u2019s politicians look like they have no idea what happened in these parts\u201d"},"content":{"rendered":"

Nata\u0161a Kandi\u0107, Interview for Novi list<\/strong><\/p>\n

by: Boris Paveli\u0107<\/p>\n

We are faced with a horrible political situation, not just in the countries of our region, but in the international community as well.\u00a0 The current international political structures look like they have no idea (what\u2019s been happening\/what has happened\/) what happened in these parts.\u00a0 When somebody promises them something that suits them, they forget about everything else.\u00a0 Today, the international community recognizes and treats with respect the same people in Serbia who supported the war in 1991.\u00a0 That is the hallmark of this moment, and it upsets \u00a0people who value the\u00a0 spirit of criticism.<\/em><\/p>\n

\"Nata\u0161a<\/p>\n

When talking about innocent victims of war, Nata\u0161a Kandi\u0107 often coughs, as if fighting tears and trying to hide a tightness in her throat.\u00a0 That\u2019s not surprising: despite a quarter of a century of peace activism and struggling to protect the rights of war victims,\u00a0 Kandi\u0107\u2019s clear-sighted compassion remains unchanged as the fundamental motive for her noble but at the same time difficult and exhausting work.\u00a0\u00a0 Nata\u0161a Kandi\u0107, the founder of the Humanitarian Law Center (HLC), a Belgrade based NGO, is undoubtedly among the most highly \u00a0regarded peace workers from the former Yugoslavia.<\/p>\n

Even before the war, together with a small group of like-minded people, she actively and courageously opposed Slobodan Milo\u0161evi\u0107\u2019s warmongering politics, organizing protests and various public activities in Belgrade.\u00a0 To this day, she has never relented in her support and advocacy for peace, compassion, solidarity, victims\u2019 rights and the punishment of war criminals.\u00a0 For example, she represented the war victims of Vukovar in the trial against several perpetrators before a court in Belgrade.\u00a0 10 years ago, Strepan Mesi\u0107, the Croatian President at the time, awarded Nata\u0161a Kandi\u0107 the \u201cCroatian Daystar\u201d, a Croatian national medal depicting Katarina Zrinska, in recognition of her peace work and efforts to promote moral values.<\/p>\n

In the past few years, she heads the campaign she has constructed for the establishment of a regional commission to establish the facts about the war and its victims, known to the public as RECOM.\u00a0 We spoke with Ms. Kandi\u0107 this week in Zagreb, where NGOs from across the region gathered to present the new results of their work on creating a registry of all the victims of the Balkan wars of the nineties.<\/p>\n

How would you describe the current situation in the region?<\/strong><\/p>\n

– I like the fact that communication between people is getting better.\u00a0 I am also very pleased that there are now initiatives such as, for example, the Crocodile Society, which work to restore damaged relations between people and cultures.\u00a0 I am thrilled by the fact that many people – at least compared to their numbers in the past -, now foster and voice criticism, and I think that there are no longer any real boundaries in this respect.\u00a0 It was hard to breach those boundaries because they were politically imposed, but I do get the feeling that this has already happened, and that no one will ever be able to impose them again.\u00a0 It was two of the region\u2019s former presidents (neither of whom was deemed successful in the end, as they both could have done better) – Boris Tadi\u0107 and Ivo Josipovi\u0107 \u2013 who started to build and lay the foundation for decent communication between the region\u2019s states. \u00a0However, with time, as leaders of their administrations, they even resorted to censorship, \u00a0started to fear certain associations, and began to listen to the opinions of the far right. In \u00a0\u00a0the end, they lost power because they had been too afraid.<\/p>\n

They were unable to consolidate the idea of a decent society, and it all proved rather limited.\u00a0 We are now faced with a horrible political situation, not just in our own countries, but in the international community as well.\u00a0 The current international political structures look like they have no idea what happened in these parts.\u00a0 When someone promises them something that suits them, they forget about everything else.\u00a0 Today, the international community recognizes and treats with respect the same people in Serbia who supported the war in 1991.\u00a0 That is the hallmark of this moment, and it upsets\u00a0 people who value the spirit of criticism.\u00a0 There are concerns over how far support for these old leaders will go, and whether political radicalism in the region will wane or continue to grow.\u00a0 It is a question of progress and the democratization of state institutions and the politicians tied to them.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

More Hope<\/strong><\/h3>\n

You are clearly talking primarily about Serbia.\u00a0 But how can we expect the international community and the EU to help with the democratization of Serbia, when Croatia itself has been spiralling into political radicalism ever since it joined the EU?<\/strong><\/p>\n

– We have seen what\u2019s going on in Hungary, and now in Croatia.\u00a0 All of these are political obstacles, and they have set back the region\u2019s overall political progress.\u00a0 For a while, it even seemed that the situation in Serbia was better than in Croatia.\u00a0 And \u00a0everything that has been going on in B&H amounts to total confusion: one day, we have Bosnian politicians drinking coffee in Belgrade – the next, their words are far removed from all that and reflect the complete opposite.\u00a0 Then, last year, we have Serbia on a diplomatic offensive\u00a0 at the UN trying to secure a resolution that does not condemn genocide, and celebrating when its efforts prove successful; Prime Minister Vu\u010di\u0107 then visits Srebrenica and gets attacked, and a big drama is made of the incident.\u00a0 However, the victims know who Vu\u010di\u0107 is, they remember his speeches from the nineties (\u201c100 Muslims for one Serb\u201d), they know who his mentor was\u2026<\/p>\n

Vu\u010di\u0107 actually got off lightly in Srebrenica, considering what he deserved.\u00a0 He certainly did not deserve to get to visit Srebrenica.\u00a0 But then, we also had victims\u2019 associations greeting Vu\u010di\u0107 in Srebrenica with lilies.\u00a0 All of that has been very difficult to understand.\u00a0 On the one hand, we have oblivion; on the other, political manipulation of all that happened and everything that should happen\u2026\u00a0 Still, I do feel that the election of the new Croatian Prime Minister brings with it a bit more hope.\u00a0 Honestly, I know people who were relieved by Plenkovi\u0107\u2019s election after all that extremism, radicalism, primitivism and populism \u2013 although, truth be told, we have yet to hear what he actually stands for.\u00a0 Plenkovi\u0107 is a man of decent manners, he does not radiate hate when he looks at people.\u00a0 That is why he won a lot of sympathy in Croatia, and even some in the rest of the region.<\/p>\n

Nevertheless, his government did stage protests after the arrests of the HVO members suspected of war crimes in Ora\u0161je.<\/strong><\/p>\n

– The situation with Ora\u0161je shows that there is a problem, one that also exists at a political level: it is generally held that those who are considered victims cannot be accused of war crimes.\u00a0 Namely, the Croats are generally considered victims; therefore, members of the HV or HVO cannot be indicted as war criminals, let alone convicted.\u00a0 That was a big surprise for me \u2013 how is something like that even possible?\u00a0 The prisons in Donja Mahala near Ora\u0161je were truly horrible.\u00a0 The Humanitarian Law Center has investigated those places.<\/p>\n

What did you find?<\/strong><\/p>\n

– We spoke with many of those who were imprisoned there, peasants for the most part, but also with some intellectuals from Ora\u0161je.\u00a0 It is incredibly hard to believe that\u00a0 human beings can come up with so many different ways to torture, abuse, humiliate and debase one another\u2026\u00a0 There was one man, who had been tortured for days, who decided to end his own life because he couldn\u2019t stand the violence any longer.\u00a0 Such testimonies should be brought to light. \u00a0\u00a0The reaction might then be different, because people would know for themselves what had happened there.\u00a0 This way, it looks as if Croatia is just defending itself against political accusations brought up by the B&H Prosecution, while everything that actually happened there remains invisible.<\/p>\n

You possess a rare perseverance when it comes to researching facts: for years now, you have been documenting victims and their identities, trying to determine accurately what happened to them, and constantly advocating for the states\u2019 involvement and support\u2026\u00a0 Are you satisfied with the effects your research has had?<\/strong><\/p>\n

– No.\u00a0 We have this \u201cother truth\u201d, these \u201cother facts\u201d, which have prevailed.\u00a0 For example, each year we come out with a list of the names of each of the 758 individuals who died in NATO\u2019s campaign against Serbia, but this fact is not even reaching the political levels.\u00a0 For each of our hard figures, we have some politician or other claiming that \u201cthousands upon thousands of people were killed, including thousands upon thousands of innocent civilians, women, children, ordinary passengers\u2026\u201d\u00a0 This would imply that at least a hundred thousand people died in NATO\u2019s airstrikes.\u00a0 That\u2019s just another manipulative ploy, a political approach that keeps the public in a permanent trap, with NATO as the main culprit and enemy.\u00a0 They never talk about why NATO decided to bomb the country in the first place.<\/p>\n

The truth, then, does not suit any of the region\u2019s political administrations?<\/strong><\/p>\n

– It would be necessary for the politicians to establish a commission charged with a rather minimal task: to establish the victims\u2019 identities and the circumstances of their death or disappearance, and to create a registry of every wartime detention site and camp where civilians were being imprisoned.\u00a0 That\u2019s the idea behind RECOM.\u00a0 Whenever we spoke with politicians, they all agreed that this was important.\u00a0 But, the next step, it took so much time\u2026 to appoint envoys\u2026 to go over all our \u00a0documentation\u2026\u00a0 It took the Presidents two years just to appoint their envoys to RECOM.<\/p>\n

However, since these envoys were appointed by former Presidents, they are no longer presidential envoys, are they?<\/strong><\/p>\n

True, they are not.\u00a0 The politicians who appointed them are no longer in power.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

To Better Times Ahead<\/strong><\/h3>\n

I am guessing that you do not expect the region\u2019s current presidents to back RECOM?<\/strong><\/p>\n

– No, we don\u2019t.\u00a0 The only chance we see is in the Berlin Process: for the governments of states such as Serbia, Kosovo, Montenegro, etc., to agree to establish a commission.\u00a0 The situation with Bosnia and Herzegovina is particularly difficult, as the Serbian member of the B&H Presidency takes his cue from the President of Republika Srpska, and he has always claimed that RECOM is aimed against the Serbs.\u00a0 We are not sure if there is any progress to be made there.\u00a0 But even with the Croatian member of the B&H Presidency, it is still unclear whether he intends to act independently or follow instructions from Zagreb.\u00a0 For now, the latter seems more likely.\u00a0 \u017deljko Kom\u0161i\u0107, the former Croatian member of the B&H Presidency, did support RECOM.<\/p>\n

Have you made contact with \u00a0Croatian President Kolinda Grabar- Kitarovi\u0107?<\/strong><\/p>\n

– Last year, RECOM\u2019s public advocate \u017darko Puhovski tried to get in touch with the President through some members of her cabinet.\u00a0 It didn\u2019t work, and we quickly realized that RECOM wasn\u2019t even on her agenda, or that of Croatia\u2019s (now former) government.\u00a0 Since Croatia\u2019s consent is not necessary for the first round of the Berlin Process, it seems to us that if the Prime Ministers of Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia, Kosovo and at least one member of the B&H Presidency were to agree on a joint declaration, it might make it easier for Croatia to join the initiative, as the task of establishing the victims\u2019 names and the circumstances of their death or disappearance cannot be completed without Croatia\u2019s participation.\u00a0 I hope that the victims\u2019 associations will give their backing, because it is important that all of the victims throughout the entire region be recognized.\u00a0 It bears repeating that the Croatian victims are recognized in Croatia, but there is still a problem with their recognition and disrespectful treatment in Serbia.\u00a0 That\u2019s why a regional approach is important.\u00a0 It is important for the Albanian victims to be acknowledged in Belgrade, instead of\u00a0 the monuments commemorating their suffering being kept \u201chidden\u201d behind speeches about Serbian victims.\u00a0 That needs to change.\u00a0 All the facts need to be made known and publically disclosed.<\/p>\n

All your work and effort is founded on the assumption that things will change for the better.\u00a0 For years, this kind of progress has symbolized the hard \u00a0but constant and certain path to EU membership for all the countries of the former Yugoslavia.\u00a0 However, in recent years, this vision has been teetering on the verge of collapse: the EU is virtually breaking apart, Russia is getting stronger by the day, Donald Trump is the U.S. President-elect, the East and the South are engulfed in wars, refugees are drowning at sea while trying to flee warzones – with Europe refusing to take them in.\u00a0 It is as if the global vision for a peaceful world is breaking apart.\u00a0 How can peace-building work continue in such a context?\u00a0 How can all these victims be protected?<\/strong><\/p>\n

– Each of us has to try answering \u00a0this question from his or her own personal perspective.\u00a0 I know that I will continue to do this until I die.\u00a0 I want to try to preserve the memory of all the people who lost their lives in the wars following the breakup of the former Yugoslavia.\u00a0 Most of them were civilians: of the 130,000 people killed in these wars, 70,000 were civilians.\u00a0 Just imagine \u2013 all the women, the children, the elderly\u2026\u00a0 Everything I know truly prevents me from coming to the conclusion that everything is breaking apart and that no one will ever need any of this.\u00a0 I do believe that it will be needed someday.\u00a0 And, even if some global shifts were to happen – and there are indications that they might -, we would still need to create and preserve something that will prove important in some other, better times.<\/p>\n

In Croatia, too, there are families whose sons died fighting for the JNA in Vukovar.\u00a0 Recently, you publically mentioned a group of victims who are almost never spoken of: the conscripts, most of whom were just 18 or 19 years old when they were mobilized by the JNA and killed (in Vukovar for the most part), and whose families now live in Croatia.\u00a0 Do you know any such families?\u00a0 How do these people live?<\/strong><\/p>\n

We haven\u2019t been able to determine the exact numbers.\u00a0 We started searching for these families last year, and we found out that their numbers were not so small.\u00a0 But, it is very hard to reach them.\u00a0 Namely, in order to obtain any information from the Serbian Ministry of Defense, we first have to know the first and last name of the victim and file it with the Ministry before it can issue a certificate confirming the victim\u2019s status.\u00a0\u00a0 We have determined that around 100 Croatian, B&H, Macedonian and Albanian nationals died fighting in Croatia.\u00a0 All of them were young conscripts in the JNA.\u00a0 Most of them died in Vukovar.\u00a0 What is most disheartening is that there is no one who works with these people.\u00a0 Their families are left to fend for themselves.\u00a0 Croatia does not recognize them, they receive no support or benefits – it is as if they have been stigmatized.\u00a0 We forget that these children did not choose to enlist in the JNA.\u00a0 They just showed up when they were drafted.\u00a0 We also forget that no one asked them about anything,\u00a0 that they didn\u2019t even know where they were going, and that they couldn\u2019t simply switch sides on the battlefield while wearing a JNA uniform.<\/p>\n

I\u2019d like to remind you of a book we\u00a0 published in Belgrade in 1991 – \u201cA Tomb for Miroslav Milenkovi\u0107\u201d.\u00a0 Milenkovi\u0107, a father of two, was forcibly enlisted in the JNA and taken to \u0160id, where his unit was stationed before it was to be deployed to the frontline in eastern Slavonia.\u00a0 Some in the unit refused, so the commanders ordered them to form two lines – those who were willing to fight were told to stand on one side, those who refused on the other.\u00a0 Armed and wearing a uniform, Milenkovi\u0107 crossed from one side to the other three times before he finally shot himself, halfway between the two lines.\u00a0 Many young people were forced to fight in the war.\u00a0 Do you remember that video of nineteen year-old Bahrudin Kaletovi\u0107 from B&H, wearing a JNA helmet with some green leaves as camouflage, taking cover on a battlefield in Slavonia and telling a Yutel reporter something along the lines of: \u201cThey\u2019re, like, pretending \u00a0to want to break away, and we\u2019re, like, not letting them.\u00a0 Actually, all we want is to get back to the barracks\u201d, adding that he only wanted to stay alive.\u00a0 That was a historical scene, and that young man expressed what all those young men and boys were thinking.\u00a0 They had no idea what was really happening around them\u2026why they were\u00a0 in Vukovar, what was going on there.\u00a0 Their families had no idea where their children were.\u00a0 In the end, all they got was a brief notification of their child\u2019s death and a sealed tin casket they were not allowed to open; the families in Croatia most likely didn\u2019t even get that.\u00a0 It is sad talking to these families.\u00a0 They are all grieving and feel like they don\u2019t belong anywhere, that no one acknowledges them.\u00a0 It\u2019s just sad, very sad.\u00a0 I hope that a time will come when all of this will be spoken of in a different manner.\u00a0\u00a0 Because \u2013 these young men are <\/em>victims, victims of ideological depravity.\u00a0 To send children to the frontline\u2026\u00a0 Moreover, the records show that most of them died during the first week, just three or four days after being taken to the battlefield.\u00a0 That means that they were sent there without any training.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

(Published in Novi list 23. 12. 2016.)<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"Nata\u0161a Kandi\u0107, Interview for Novi list by: Boris Paveli\u0107 We are faced with a horrible political situation, not just in… ","protected":false},"author":8,"featured_media":141900,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[636],"tags":[1747],"class_list":["post-141992","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-interviews","tag-natasa-kandic"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"\nNata\u0161a Kandi\u0107: \u201eToday\u2019s politicians look like they have no idea what happened in these parts\u201d - REKOM ~ KOMRA ~ RECOM<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.recom.link\/en\/natasa-kandic-todays-politicians-look-like-no-idea-happened-parts\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Nata\u0161a Kandi\u0107: \u201eToday\u2019s politicians look like they have no idea what happened in these parts\u201d - 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